Comments for Orthodox Reform http://orthodoxreform.org Advocating reform to combat sexual misconduct in the Orthodox Church Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:57:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 Comment on Avoiding Uncanonical Churches by hieromonk sergios http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/stay-safe-by-avoiding-uncanonical-churches/#comment-175 hieromonk sergios Mon, 14 May 2007 14:53:07 +0000 http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/stay-safe-by-avoiding-uncanonical-churches/#comment-175 Canonical or shmanonical. so called canonicity guaranties nothing. Canonical or shmanonical. so called canonicity guaranties nothing.

]]> Comment on WFAA: Dallas pastor faces new allegations by ANNA/PETER DEROSE http://orthodoxreform.org/cases/fr-nicholas-katinas/wfaa-katinas-new-allegations/#comment-172 ANNA/PETER DEROSE Sat, 12 May 2007 19:35:47 +0000 http://orthodoxreform.org/cases/fr-nicholas-katinas/wfaa-katinas-new-allegations/#comment-172 I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO SAY. THIS IS OR SHOULD NOT BE EXCEPTABLE IN ANY WAY OR FORM I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO SAY. THIS IS OR SHOULD NOT BE EXCEPTABLE IN ANY WAY OR FORM

]]> Comment on WFAA: Dallas pastor faces new allegations by ANNA/PETER DEROSE http://orthodoxreform.org/cases/fr-nicholas-katinas/wfaa-katinas-new-allegations/#comment-171 ANNA/PETER DEROSE Sat, 12 May 2007 19:32:29 +0000 http://orthodoxreform.org/cases/fr-nicholas-katinas/wfaa-katinas-new-allegations/#comment-171 WHEN I HEARD WHAT FATHER KATINIS DID I WAS SHOCKED TO SAY THE LEAST. TO THINK MY 2 BOYS ALMOST BECAME ALTER BOYS. GLAD THEY DID NOT WANT TO DO IT OR THEY TOO WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF HIS TOYS. I HAVE LOST FAITH IN ALL CHURCHES AND HAVE SET UP MY OWN ORTHODOX CHURCH HERE IN MY HOME WITH ALL THE HYMS. LITERGY,INCENSE, AND HOLY WEEK TAPES. UNTIL I FEEL I CAN TRUST THE CHURCH ONCE AGAIN. DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT WILL BE.I HAVE EVERYHING I NEED HERE. TO THOSE GREEKS AT HOLY TRINITY SHAME ON YOU FOR COVERING UP FOR KATINAS. IF IT WERE YOUR SON WOULD YOU STILL BE WILLING TO PROTECT KATINAS? I KNOW THE LORD SAYS TO FORGIVE. NOT SURE I CAN FORGIVE THIS. THE CHURCH KNEW ABOUT THIS A LONG TIME AGO AND SAID NOTHING. HOW RELIGIOUS IS THAT? WE LIVED IN RICHARDSON FOR 22 YEARS. I NEVER LIKE FATHER KATINAS THAT MUCH. ALWAYS FELT SOMETHING WAS NOT RIGHT. SO HERE IT IS. TO THINK MY 2 BOYS WOULD HAVE FELL VICTIM TO THIS IS SCARY. MY HEART GOES OUT TO THE MOTHER OF THESE BOYS. THERE LIVES WILL BE FOREVER RUINED. HE SHOULD NOT GET AWAY WITH ANY OF THIS. SOME OF THE PEOPLE ARE IN DENIAL. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES PEOPLE. HE WAS WRONG AND SO WERE ALL OF YOU INVOLVED IN THIS WETHER YOU KNOW IT OR NOT. GOD HELP US ALL!!! WHEN I HEARD WHAT FATHER KATINIS DID I WAS SHOCKED TO SAY THE LEAST. TO THINK MY 2 BOYS ALMOST BECAME ALTER BOYS. GLAD THEY DID NOT WANT TO DO IT OR THEY TOO WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF HIS TOYS. I HAVE LOST FAITH IN ALL CHURCHES AND HAVE SET UP MY OWN ORTHODOX CHURCH HERE IN MY HOME WITH ALL THE HYMS. LITERGY,INCENSE, AND HOLY WEEK TAPES. UNTIL I FEEL I CAN TRUST THE CHURCH ONCE AGAIN. DON’T KNOW WHEN THAT WILL BE.I HAVE EVERYHING I NEED HERE. TO THOSE GREEKS AT HOLY TRINITY SHAME ON YOU FOR COVERING UP FOR KATINAS. IF IT WERE YOUR SON WOULD YOU STILL BE WILLING TO PROTECT KATINAS? I KNOW THE LORD SAYS TO FORGIVE. NOT SURE I CAN FORGIVE THIS. THE CHURCH KNEW ABOUT THIS A LONG TIME AGO AND SAID NOTHING. HOW RELIGIOUS IS THAT? WE LIVED IN RICHARDSON FOR 22 YEARS. I NEVER LIKE FATHER KATINAS THAT MUCH. ALWAYS FELT SOMETHING WAS NOT RIGHT. SO HERE IT IS. TO THINK MY 2 BOYS WOULD HAVE FELL VICTIM TO THIS IS SCARY. MY HEART GOES OUT TO THE MOTHER OF THESE BOYS. THERE LIVES WILL BE FOREVER RUINED. HE SHOULD NOT GET AWAY WITH ANY OF THIS. SOME OF THE PEOPLE ARE IN DENIAL. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES PEOPLE. HE WAS WRONG AND SO WERE ALL OF YOU INVOLVED IN THIS WETHER YOU KNOW IT OR NOT. GOD HELP US ALL!!!

]]> Comment on The Abomination of Child Molestation by Theophan Zarras http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/the-abomination-of-child-molestation/#comment-170 Theophan Zarras Fri, 11 May 2007 11:55:29 +0000 http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/the-abomination-of-child-molestation/#comment-170 Good point, Cappy. I think this showcases the need for education -- people who don't understand much about these issues often reach for explanations in places that don't make sense or are inappropriate. The main problem within the church are predators and those that aid and abbett their abuse by shuffling them from parish to parish and refusing to discipline them and turn them into the police. Good point, Cappy. I think this showcases the need for education — people who don’t understand much about these issues often reach for explanations in places that don’t make sense or are inappropriate. The main problem within the church are predators and those that aid and abbett their abuse by shuffling them from parish to parish and refusing to discipline them and turn them into the police.

]]> Comment on The Abomination of Child Molestation by Cappy Larson http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/the-abomination-of-child-molestation/#comment-169 Cappy Larson Fri, 11 May 2007 02:15:50 +0000 http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/the-abomination-of-child-molestation/#comment-169 Perhaps Father Vladimir meant well in writing this article but I find it very disturbing. He talks about how our society exploits the case of John Benet and then proceeds to do just that in his article to the point of blaming John Benet’s mother for the child's murder. Regardless of how you or I may feel about child beauty contests, this child did not die because her mother had her perform in a contest. Following this logic, why then were the little Amish girls victimized? Was it their fault? Was it their mothers' fault? Should we blame the parents of all children who are sexually abused and murdered, regardless of who committed the crime? This article is a classic example of blame the victim. The reason these innocent children died is because someone made the choice to brutalize them and take their lives. And victimizing children is not a modern day phenomenon. When people blame the parents, they are able to convince themselves that this could never happen to their child, because they watch out for their child unlike the parents of abused and murdered children. Cappy Larson www.pokrov.org Perhaps Father Vladimir meant well in writing this article but I find it very disturbing.

He talks about how our society exploits the case of John Benet and then proceeds to do just that in his article to the point of blaming John Benet’s mother for the child’s murder. Regardless of how you or I may feel about child beauty contests, this child did not die because her mother had her perform in a contest. Following this logic, why then were the little Amish girls victimized? Was it their fault? Was it their mothers’ fault? Should we blame the parents of all children who are sexually abused and murdered, regardless of who committed the crime? This article is a classic example of blame the victim. The reason these innocent children died is because someone made the choice to brutalize them and take their lives. And victimizing children is not a modern day phenomenon.

When people blame the parents, they are able to convince themselves that this could never happen to their child, because they watch out for their child unlike the parents of abused and murdered children.

Cappy Larson
www.pokrov.org

]]> Comment on Churches Slam Doors on Sex Offenders by john http://orthodoxreform.org/news/churches-slam-doors-on-sex-offenders/#comment-158 john Fri, 04 May 2007 16:15:20 +0000 http://orthodoxreform.org/news/churches-slam-doors-on-sex-offenders/#comment-158 Meghan BRAVO Now show us the way. How you WE achieve the goal you have so beautifully articulated? Meghan

BRAVO

Now show us the way.

How you WE achieve the goal you have so beautifully articulated?

]]> Comment on Churches Slam Doors on Sex Offenders by Meghan W http://orthodoxreform.org/news/churches-slam-doors-on-sex-offenders/#comment-156 Meghan W Fri, 04 May 2007 01:55:39 +0000 http://orthodoxreform.org/news/churches-slam-doors-on-sex-offenders/#comment-156 We already have problems of pedophiles and abusers undiscovered, discovered but not handled, and discovered mishandled and unsupervised amidst the people, with or without their knowledge. The reform we want is a return to the original traditions that were handed to us. Our beautiful faith has weapons to combat spiritual warfare and protect members. Anything less than the fullness of the faith is a patent violation of everything that is 'Orthodoxy'. Orthodoxy started penitentiaries and hospitals knowing theosis wasn't possible in a mixed environment. We had areas where the unreconciled could not be -- the nave and the altar -- they stood outside in the narthex or exo-narthex. They were set apart not only for protection of victims, but also for public disclosure and to 'deliver them from the evil one' that would cause them to lapse if given access to money or sexual visuals, sensuals and smells. In a place set apart, to encourage healing and theosis, the darkest of sinners could and often would become saints. Our problem is we have become contaminated/homogenized with the secular tolerance of the age, and the application of the canons and traditions are left to the sole discretion of clergy, who could be casual, ignorant, cowardly or dismissive of canons and traditions. Orthodoxy had its reform, and it isn't working: we need to return to uncut Orthodoxy, and keep the traditions that were given to us. We already have problems of pedophiles and abusers undiscovered, discovered but not handled, and discovered mishandled and unsupervised amidst the people, with or without their knowledge. The reform we want is a return to the original traditions that were handed to us. Our beautiful faith has weapons to combat spiritual warfare and protect members. Anything less than the fullness of the faith is a patent violation of everything that is ‘Orthodoxy’. Orthodoxy started penitentiaries and hospitals knowing theosis wasn’t possible in a mixed environment. We had areas where the unreconciled could not be — the nave and the altar — they stood outside in the narthex or exo-narthex. They were set apart not only for protection of victims, but also for public disclosure and to ‘deliver them from the evil one’ that would cause them to lapse if given access to money or sexual visuals, sensuals and smells. In a place set apart, to encourage healing and theosis, the darkest of sinners could and often would become saints. Our problem is we have become contaminated/homogenized with the secular tolerance of the age, and the application of the canons and traditions are left to the sole discretion of clergy, who could be casual, ignorant, cowardly or dismissive of canons and traditions. Orthodoxy had its reform, and it isn’t working: we need to return to uncut Orthodoxy, and keep the traditions that were given to us.

]]> Comment on Avoiding Uncanonical Churches by diane http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/stay-safe-by-avoiding-uncanonical-churches/#comment-155 diane Fri, 04 May 2007 00:20:23 +0000 http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/stay-safe-by-avoiding-uncanonical-churches/#comment-155 Speaking as a Catholic mom of two boys, ages 12 and 14, I simply do not trust <i>anyone.</i> I will not let my sons be alone with <i>any</i> man except their father. Even for Confession--and even though I firmly believe our priest is a good, holy person--I make sure the Reconciliation Room has a window! I'm sure I'm way over-protective, but IMHO the world has gone mad. It's not just churches; it's Boy Scouts, schools, everything. We homeschool, not because we're trying to shelter our kids from the Big Bad World, but for religious and academic reasons. The boys socialize via youth-group meetings chaperoned by parents. OK, I probably sound like a nut-case--but my kids appear to be happy and well balanced, so we must be doing something right. When I was a kid, I rode my bike all over town. I was unsupervised much of the time, and nothing bad ever happened. But it was a different world back then. Not that Bad Stuff didn't happen: My own mom was molested repeatedly at age five by a man in her family's apartment building. But it sure seemed as if Bad Stuff wasn't as rampant then as it is now. Maybe that's an illusion; perhaps it just didn't get reported then the way it does now. I don't know. Cappy and Melanie would have a better guage of that. All I know is--I'm paranoid. If that makes me over-protective, so be it. Speaking as a Catholic mom of two boys, ages 12 and 14, I simply do not trust anyone. I will not let my sons be alone with any man except their father. Even for Confession–and even though I firmly believe our priest is a good, holy person–I make sure the Reconciliation Room has a window!

I’m sure I’m way over-protective, but IMHO the world has gone mad. It’s not just churches; it’s Boy Scouts, schools, everything.

We homeschool, not because we’re trying to shelter our kids from the Big Bad World, but for religious and academic reasons. The boys socialize via youth-group meetings chaperoned by parents. OK, I probably sound like a nut-case–but my kids appear to be happy and well balanced, so we must be doing something right.

When I was a kid, I rode my bike all over town. I was unsupervised much of the time, and nothing bad ever happened. But it was a different world back then. Not that Bad Stuff didn’t happen: My own mom was molested repeatedly at age five by a man in her family’s apartment building. But it sure seemed as if Bad Stuff wasn’t as rampant then as it is now. Maybe that’s an illusion; perhaps it just didn’t get reported then the way it does now. I don’t know. Cappy and Melanie would have a better guage of that.

All I know is–I’m paranoid. If that makes me over-protective, so be it.

]]> Comment on Avoiding Uncanonical Churches by Meghan W http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/stay-safe-by-avoiding-uncanonical-churches/#comment-154 Meghan W Thu, 03 May 2007 16:03:46 +0000 http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/stay-safe-by-avoiding-uncanonical-churches/#comment-154 In following the Dallas case, one reads that the Illinois diocese was informed years previously and in turn informed the Dallas diocese of the allegations -- both dioceses being canonical. In following the Barrow case, one reads that the Antiochian jurisdiction was informed years previously and in turn informed the Greek jurisdiction of the allegations, both jurisdictions being canonical. Trying to follow the Blanco monastery from its genesis through the ROCOR (canonical by some arguments) to wherever, one gets the impression that the church administrations were informed but hot potatoed away, leaving the operation intact, though I doubt if ROCOR got completely off the hook of any liability. The problem is the 'canonical' churches hold out perhaps a false sense of security based on the confidence that 'canonicity' implies: canonical, following the canons. But that hasn't been the case in practice, canonicity is as canonicity does, and sadly, our canonical churches have been slipping. And because they have been slipping in not only safety but hospitality, the uncanonical churches offer relief in welcoming strangers. But SVS, Dallas, Salt Lake City, Koveos, Anthimos, etc., the canonical churches continue the practice of sheltering fugitives from justice if their crimes were reported. The uncanonical churches 'smell' wrong -- we're less likely to attack canonical Goliaths, but usually quicker to go after uncanonicals. You have less back up in canonical churches. In following the Dallas case, one reads that the Illinois diocese was informed years previously and in turn informed the Dallas diocese of the allegations — both dioceses being canonical. In following the Barrow case, one reads that the Antiochian jurisdiction was informed years previously and in turn informed the Greek jurisdiction of the allegations, both jurisdictions being canonical. Trying to follow the Blanco monastery from its genesis through the ROCOR (canonical by some arguments) to wherever, one gets the impression that the church administrations were informed but hot potatoed away, leaving the operation intact, though I doubt if ROCOR got completely off the hook of any liability. The problem is the ‘canonical’ churches hold out perhaps a false sense of security based on the confidence that ‘canonicity’ implies: canonical, following the canons. But that hasn’t been the case in practice, canonicity is as canonicity does, and sadly, our canonical churches have been slipping. And because they have been slipping in not only safety but hospitality, the uncanonical churches offer relief in welcoming strangers. But SVS, Dallas, Salt Lake City, Koveos, Anthimos, etc., the canonical churches continue the practice of sheltering fugitives from justice if their crimes were reported. The uncanonical churches ’smell’ wrong — we’re less likely to attack canonical Goliaths, but usually quicker to go after uncanonicals. You have less back up in canonical churches.

]]> Comment on Avoiding Uncanonical Churches by Staff http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/stay-safe-by-avoiding-uncanonical-churches/#comment-153 Staff Thu, 03 May 2007 14:22:21 +0000 http://orthodoxreform.org/opinion/stay-safe-by-avoiding-uncanonical-churches/#comment-153 Good point, Cappy. We've changed the title of this article from 'Stay Safe by Avoiding Uncanonical Churches' to simply 'Avoiding Uncanonical Churches.' Additionally, we think you're right that canonical churches are by no means a guarantee of safety. The point this article tried to make (though it appears unsuccessfully!) was that in an ideal world canonical churches provide a higher level of accountability than schismatic churches which lack the authority and accountability of the canonically sustained communions. Sadly, at the moment, it sounds from your experience that there may be little difference between canonical and schismatic churches in actual practice. It sounds much like marriage. While the ideal of Christian marriage would posit that Christians would divorce at a lower rate than secular couples, our modern situation is that statistically Christian marriage divorce at the same rate as the secular average. So while canonical churches may be the ideal, our current sinful situation is that they are not healthy and functioning as intended. So parents, do beware. Good point, Cappy. We’ve changed the title of this article from ‘Stay Safe by Avoiding Uncanonical Churches’ to simply ‘Avoiding Uncanonical Churches.’ Additionally, we think you’re right that canonical churches are by no means a guarantee of safety. The point this article tried to make (though it appears unsuccessfully!) was that in an ideal world canonical churches provide a higher level of accountability than schismatic churches which lack the authority and accountability of the canonically sustained communions.

Sadly, at the moment, it sounds from your experience that there may be little difference between canonical and schismatic churches in actual practice.

It sounds much like marriage. While the ideal of Christian marriage would posit that Christians would divorce at a lower rate than secular couples, our modern situation is that statistically Christian marriage divorce at the same rate as the secular average.

So while canonical churches may be the ideal, our current sinful situation is that they are not healthy and functioning as intended.

So parents, do beware.

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